030 : Shaping Your Company Culture Through Emotional Conversations with Tina Jones

030-TJ_landscape1200x630

Subscribe: iTunes | Stitcher | Spotify | Deezer

HR has gone through many phases over the years. At some point, it was “low on the totem pole in terms of influence”, usually only consulted for operational issues involving performance reviews and employee pay. It was not long before culture came to be viewed as one of the key indicators of a company’s success. Today, with data analytics in its toolkit, HR paints a real-time, statistics-backed picture of an organization’s team dynamics. By looking at culture in a quantitative sense, insights can be unearthed to bring about qualitative change.

Culture is living, dynamic, and best known by the people who shape it day-by-day—the employees. As companies march toward the new normal, leaders must realize that, while it pays to have a big-picture vision of their business, the best way to determine the future of work within their own organizations is to engage in meaningful conversations with their people. The three questions to ask them are: 1) What was working well back then?; 2) What is working well today?; 3) What can we do to take ourselves into a post-COVID-19 world?

Steve Chaparro and Tina Jones discuss how leaders can have more emotional conversations with their team members to take their company culture to the next level. Stay tuned.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • What Tina brought over from her legal background into the HR field
  • How HR has changed over the past eight years
  • Bringing about cultural transformation
  • Why the best subject matter experts of a company’s culture are often the employees themselves
  • Determining the future of work by having conversations with your people
  • Initial challenges that leaders faced at the outbreak of the pandemic

Resources Mentioned in this episode:

About the Guest:

Tina Jones is the Senior Vice President of Global Human Resources at Cadence Design Systems. She leads the global talent strategy for a world-class team of over 8000 employees in over 20 countries. During her eight years leading global HR at Cadence, she has helped lead a culture transformation. In fact, in that time Cadence has been named to the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list, and has been recognized by many Great Place to Work rankings around the globe.

She graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science at Stanford University and a Juris Doctorate at the University of California, School of Law.

Sponsor for this episode:

This podcast is brought to you by Culture Design Studio. This is where I help creative organizations transform their cultures from being controlling to being collaborative. If you want to know more about I provide facilitation and coaching for your creative team, reach out to me at CultureDesignStudio.com.

This episode is also brought to you by DesignThinkers Group, USA, an innovation support. To learn more about DesignThinkers Group, go to DesignThinkersGroup.us.

Full Transcript: Powered by Otter.ai

Announcer 

Welcome to the Culture Design Show where we feature conversations with leaders and thinkers who are passionate about culture and design. Now, let’s get started with the show.

Steve Chaparro 

This podcast is brought to you by Culture Design Studio. This is where I help creative organizations transform their cultures, from being controlling to being collaborative. Now, here are some of the things that I’ve learned. Your creative talent demands a co creative culture in order to produce their best work. But there’s a problem. So let’s see if we can recognize some of these signs. There’s no framework to move your culture forward. You have high turnover and low morale. There’s increasing toxicity across all levels. There’s team engagement and satisfaction that are on the decline. There’s a misalignment between the employer brand and the employee experience and there’s poor communication about expectations and values. So if you want to learn more about how I provide facilitation and coaching for your creative team, reach out to me at culturedesignstudio.com.

Our guest today is Tina Jones, Senior Vice President of global human resources at Cadence Design Systems. She leads the global talent strategy for a world class team of over 8000 employees in over 20 countries. During her eight years leading global HR at cadence she has helped lead a culture transformation. So if you know me, that is something I love to hear. In fact, in that time cadence has been named to the fortune 100 Best Companies to Work for list and has been recognized by many great place to work rankings around the globe. Tina, welcome to the show.

Tina Jones 

Thank you so much for having me.

Steve Chaparro 

Well, as I mentioned before, on the call When I heard you be part of a panel here in my great city of Long Beach, it was a California HR conference. I loved the fact that that was such a great atmosphere for HR leaders, you know, to talk amongst their peers and feel free to share, you know, the good, bad, maybe even some cases, the ugly of what it means to be leading people and culture. And I know that you mentioned one thing in particular that we’ll touch on in a moment that really, you know, compelled me to reach out to you to be part of this, this podcast. So I appreciate you being here. Thank you. Well, I’d love to hear a little bit first, as I always do with our guests and hear a little bit about your professional journey. And what led you to your current role at Cadence.

Tina Jones 

Oh, great. Well, thank you for for having me. And thanks for asking. You know, I think HR is really that you know, great secret of corporate America. Such an interesting field ever changing. I think it’s evolved immensely in the last decade. And it really is one of those professions where you can lean in ways that comport with your own interests. So, you know, you can lean operational, you can lean, you know, marketing, you can lean, you know, comp and Ben, there’s just so many different opportunities within HR. I think it’s just a really interesting way to have a huge impact on companies strategy. So I just got lucky, frankly, I didn’t, you know, aim to get into the field of HR. I was an attorney.

So I went to law school, I clerked on the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals and then went to a big law firm Gibson, Dunn and Crutcher which Am I was a trial lawyer. And then I went in house to one of my classes. cadence design systems about 17 years ago, and I worked in house for for four years, and then got asked by the CEO to lead HR. So I really came into HR sort of in the leadership position and had to learn a lot from the the team that I got to work with. Luckily, they were, they were so good. They sort of taught me along the way, but I came in through a side door, I guess, and just, I’ve really benefited from getting to work at a great company with a strong team. And in a profession that’s changing very quickly and keeps it challenging and interesting.

Steve Chaparro 

Why I love these stories about non traditional paths to these executive roles in HR. You know, when I hear about your story in the story of Claude silver who comes from in in the creative world, she was a in Account Services and leading accounts and things like that. It just Just amazing to hear those different things and what what I always love to hear it kind of drill down in response to that is, what were some of the skills that you brought over to HR. You talked about those leanings and whether those leanings come from your past or just your your area of interest. What did you bring from your legal background that has helped you in leading HR?

Tina Jones 

Yeah, I think if you, you know, one, probably, the predominant core skill that lawyers have is they tend to be good problem solvers. They tend to be pretty analytical, and then good at, often at communicating and writing and things like that. So, you know, what I’ve realized I have leaned a lot on the problem solving skills that I learned as a lawyer, you know, clients come to you they’ve got a big fat problem, and it’s up to sort of, you know, figure out the best path, you know, through those problems. And it definitely comes in handy in HR, I’d say it’s come in the most handy when I first took the job and the company had was going through a lot of challenging times. And so the problem solving skills was very helpful.

We had to restructure the whole company, we let go of, you know, you know, 1500 people, and we had to restructure our finances and really get back on our feet, the legal background help with that, again, in light of COVID, and us having to sort of turn on a dime and solve a lot of problem each each problems each day, things we hadn’t foreseen before. I do think that the legal training and just thinking that way has helped. But there are a lot of things in HR where, you know, the legal training is, you know, not relevant. And that’s, you know, lawyers don’t tend to be long term strategic thinkers. They don’t have to be visionary for you know, what do I see in the next video to five years, how do I inspire people to follow a vision, things like that. So those are all skills that I really had to work at. Whereas the like, quick problem solving and you know, being cool under pressure came more naturally than the long term strategic thinking. No.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, I can definitely see that for sure. The problem solving, you can go very deep and find all the all the trail crumbs of what you know, is a signal to what is the next the best path forward. So in that you so you were you were invited to take on this role? Other than wanting to be just a team player, which is always I’m sure a part of it. What was it about the role specifically, if you can tap into maybe one or two, or maybe three things that really intrigued you about going down this path?

Tina Jones 

That’s a very good question. Let me the sort of obvious one, it was a chance to be part of the CEOs management team. So I was not the general counsel, I worked for the general counsel’s so this was an opportunity to be part of the the management team. And I’ll just footnote that I have been the only female on the management team for the last, I think, probably 12 years or so. So that’s been a, you know, I had obviously, was given a great opportunity through that. HR had been my primary clients. So HR would call me as employment counsel or litigation counsel and and ask for advice. And and we work together on a lot of issues related to employees. So it was a chance to join a team that had been my primary client I had a lot of respect for.

I think the third thing would just be learning something completely new. I understood maybe 50% of what HR did at the time. The other 50 was completely new to me. I didn’t Have a great global perspective. Most of the legal issues were US based so really opened by my mind to global issues. I think when I first took the job, I quickly sort of went around the world and got to see a lot of our global sites and it’s just such a different perspective on the company. So that was so interesting. I got to go deep on things like compensation and the more technical things that HR does, and that’s been just great learning really challenging compensation is really quite technical, frankly, at most companies and has been, it is where a lot of a lot of my personal time goes. So I think it was just the learning and really getting to understand cadence as a global company that that would be the pieces that really drew me, drew me to it in addition to getting to be part of the management team, you

Steve Chaparro 

If so if we stay here at a high level where we talk about you mentioned even at the at the beginning, that even over the eight years that you’ve been in this role eight plus years, the HR has changed. What have been some of those changes that you’ve seen the shifts just within how we define HR, should HR be repositioned, reimagined? What are some of those the shifts that you’ve seen that have happened and maybe are happening moving forward?

Tina Jones 

Right, I was. HR, I think, has gone through many phases over the years, right. They talked about when we were just personnel and make sure people get their paychecks and their benefits. That in high tech, at least, that’s what that was quite some time ago, in high tech where our entire business model rests solely on our intellectual property and coming from people’s you know, intellectual talent. There is a recognition that it is all about the people, especially a company like k were primarily we’re a software company. So we are not selling selling widgets. We are creating software code largely. And that really depends on the type of talent you get and how innovative you are. So there’s a recognition that talent is, you know, the driving force behind the company. So probably high tech was, you know, a little bit more on the forefront of the evolution of HR. So I think we went from personnel but when I came in, really HR was low on the totem pole in terms of influence for sure. And people look to HR mainly for operational issues, you know, let’s make sure things run smoothly, performance reviews, pay benefits, those sorts of things.

In the next phase, I think culture became an important piece of how many companies viewed business success, and HR had a real opportunity to weigh in on culture and not have to carry it on their backs, it really has to be much bigger than HR, but to put some framework around it, to keep it front and center, to make sure leaders had a way to talk about it, knew how to reinforce it with things like compensation and rewards and, you know, how they speak about their teams and all of that. So HR had a real role to play on culture. I think that was a huge opportunity for us. And now, honestly, I mean, I feel like HR, everyone’s looking at HR, what’s the future of work gonna look like? Um, you know, these huge strategic issues on workforce planning. So and now that data and analytics is in our toolkit, we are now the voice of here’s what’s happening with Your people in a very not anecdotal way, but in a factual way. And I think that’s very powerful. And leaders are looking to us to bring that expertise to the table.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, I think that’s something that I have, as I observe, and I’ve talked with a lot of, you know, CEOs are just people in culture leaders in the C suite that have said, you know, maybe in the past, we’ve been more anecdotal where we’ve just relied on one off conversations. But now that we have the analytics, we can actually have the data and even, you know, the data in real time. And I think in some cases, what I’ve seen is it’s, it’s the qualitative plus the quantitative and then at the end, still bringing back the qualitative to kind of say, Okay, let’s make sense of what all of this says, Let’s grab some insights to develop strategies and how we move forward. So it’s not one or the other. It’s it’s those two combined and even kind of reframing it at the end with some more qualitative you You mentioned so culture was a big part of the transformation. And that’s what really grabbed me, as we said before about when you share it on the panel, share with me as much as you can. What were some of those cultural what what does that cultural transformation look like? Meaning what were some of the challenges you needed to dress and how you went about that?

Tina Jones 

You know, Canaan’s has gone through a very interesting journey. And I think is one of the better examples of a culture transformation driving success. So when I took the job in HR in 2007, in tooth in the fall of 2008, most of the management team left the company. The company’s market cap, I think was in the $700 million range. We reset our business model. We very quickly brought in a new management team and brought in a CEO. Our CEO stepped in from the board. He had never had an operational role at a company. He was a venture capitalist. And he had certainly never been a CEO before. And we came together to really help the company turn a very big corner. I don’t think the company’s survival was an issue, but certainly, a company went from, you know, a 20 something dollar stock to a $2 stock. And, you know, in rather short time, so employees were losing faith. Our customers were not happy with us. We had been very damaged in the ecosystem, our reputation, and today our market cap is $26 billion. We have 8500 wonderful employees in 23 countries. We are very well regarded in the industry. We’re an industry leader from an innovation standpoint. From a success standpoint, I think our CEO can boast a, you know, higher than 25 x shareholder return from when he stepped in. So it’s been a real success story. And I give the CEO a lot of credit of being culture as a way to change the company on such a, on a fundamental level.

And, you know, we came in and we had a broken business model, and we had, we lost sight of innovation, we were by adding innovation rather than developing it ourselves in in large part, and we’ve lost sight of customers being front and center. We were also very, very siloed as a company, so he quickly identified or siloed or sort of bureaucratic and slow moving and customers aren’t front and center of our decision making. And we have not invested enough innovation in innovation instead of just going and doing it. Have those things in pieces? We we came together said this is what we stand for from a values perspective. So it would be, you know, innovation and agility and one team and customer first. Right? So we came together and said, This is what we stand for. And then everything we did keyed off of that. rewarded off of that we promoted off of that. You know, those are the people, we people who did this, well, we’re the ones we featured at our, you know, in meetings and then communications. We worked on our decision making process for more agility. And if if you don’t act in a way consistent with won’t get one cadence, one team, you just won’t succeed at the company. So I really, you know, give him a lot of credit, and it’s been fun to partner with him on this concept of the values at the core, and then go and do the things You need to do but keep bringing it back to the why. Yeah. So I think employees, it does not happen overnight. And it’s one of those things that I didn’t completely understand when we started doing it. And but when you looked over, you know, two, three and four years, you’re like, oh, wow, that really did shift. So that’s what I mean by culture journey.

Steve Chaparro 

This podcast is brought to you by DesignThinkers Group and innovation support firm. I am joined today by Marc Bolick, who is the managing partner. Welcome, Mark.

Marc Bolick 

Thanks, Steve. It’s great to be part of the Culture Design Show.

Steve Chaparro 

Marc, a lot of people are curious about what makes design thinking useful for culture change. Can you give us your perspective on that?

Marc Bolick 

Yeah, that’s a great question. And Steve is, you know, design thinking is is a problem solving methodology that’s based on building empathy for people. And it’s, I think, through that building empathy for the people that you’re serving that gives people purpose to their work. And I think there could be no better foundation for building a people centered culture than that.

Steve Chaparro 

Marc, I think I agree with that. That’s the reason why we do work together. Folks, if you want to learn more about design thinkers group go to designthinkersgroup.us.

Steve Chaparro 

One thing that strikes me is you mentioned that part of this journey started with, you know, whole new senior management, senior leadership. You there was a CEO who had never been operationally a CEO before you were young in your HR career. So you didn’t necessarily have the best practices of a 20 plus year career. how helpful was that? to kind of come in without the baggage if you will. You know, those 2030 years of best practices.

Tina Jones 

That’s a good point. I had not found But before, I do think looking back, we had a management team where we were each in the biggest job we had ever had. So what I when I think back at that time, what kept resonating with me at the, at the time I was very aware of was everyone cared about the company. First, it was a low ego time. People were really trying to help the company turn the corner, and it was sort of an all hands on deck situation. So, people, some people had been at the company a long time. And many people had been in the industry their whole career. Sure. And so there was this like deep love for the company and this deep love for this industry doing well. So we had that but we were all on stretch assignments. And so it’s a very good point you make and I hadn’t thought of it that way before. People didn’t come in with a playbook.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah.

Tina Jones 

And they didn’t come and say, Hey, I saw this before and let’s let’s do what we did at Cisco. They, you know, any kind of Intel wherever they came in pretty fresh and that probably made us open to ideas. Point.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, in some of those cases I’ve seen where if you come in with into a process without a preconceived endpoint or a preconceived solution, or even a preconceived framework, that sometimes we allow the process to, to to let those solutions emerge, and let those voices emerge. You know, I come from a world of architecture. And I remember when I was in architecture school when we were still learning to draft manually, one of the things that is so poignant for me, was my first year instructor would tell us, okay, don’t go into this process, thinking about what the end design will look like. Come in, literally with a fresh piece. White vellum, you write one line, that line will inspire the next line and inspire the next line so that the process will allow the end product to be far greater than what you could ever imagine. Otherwise, if you only designed to that preconceived design, you shortchange everyone from what it could potentially be. And, and I think even the idea that I as the architect and the sole inspire of those lines, without getting any sort of ideas from anyone else, I truly believe. And I wonder if you’ve experienced this yourself that sometimes the best subject matter experts on our culture is not the executives, not even a third party consultant, but rather the employees themselves.

Tina Jones 

Exactly. I love your story about architecture and you’re living the life that I want to live in my next chapter. Would love to do that architecture. And design. But I think the I didn’t acknowledge it. But the primary thing we changed was listening to employees. And we were not eight, we were terrified to listen to them in the past, because we knew we couldn’t meet their demands and their requests. And but we, we listen, and we’re like, Look, we’re going to be very straight with you. eight out of 10 of these things we can’t do right now. There won’t be a bonus.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah.

Tina Jones 

Some of us are taking pay cuts, there isn’t enough stock or whatever. We’re going to be straight with you listen to you and let you know where things are along the way. We very consciously tried to change that. And like you said, the employees are really the culture is living no matter what the exact team says. You know, so I think you have to meet in the middle between your aspirational and how the culture fuels, the strategy and that vision of what you can see a success, but you have to stay very close to What it actually Yeah, yeah. And keep and it’s dynamic. So keep posting that. That’s a very good point.

Steve Chaparro 

And I think many times, if we’re honest with ourselves, there is some times not all the time, but there is sometimes a misalignment between the aspirational employer brand promise, you know, this is who we hope to be. This is what we want to be, this is what we’re going that’s this is the vision. But if we listen, truly listen to our employees. This is the this is the real employee experience. But I think to your point, if you say, Hey, this is what we’re going, but we recognize that we’re not there. We recognize that there’s 10 things we could we need to work on. But here’s what we’re going to focus on too. And that way that everyone’s on the same page is like okay, yes, we are we as an employee, we want this we as leadership, we want this but let’s be real, let’s we’re going to focus on these two and I think even even admitting that earns a ton of trust. technology we heard you. But here’s what we can work on. Yeah.

Tina Jones 

Companies have a unique opportunity right now.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah.

Tina Jones 

Because we’re saying what is that? What does the future of work look like? For us? Probably 85 to 90%. This week of our employees are working from home globally. And so we’re saying, Let’s not assume we all go back, even when it’s safer to what it looked like before. And we want employees, we’re just starting on this, but we want employees to weigh in on what works well for them. We’ve now experienced productivity outside the office and being in person. What do you like about it? What don’t you like about it? How can we improve that experience? Should we be more flexible than we’ve been in the past? So there’s a huge culture opportunity where we better not as companies go at this alone with just what the executive team wants to happen. It’s a very good opportunity to listen to employees.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, that’s one of the things we’ve been saying recently is that right now we’re in a in an ops in an opportune time in history, that we cannot come out of this without having learned something without having listened. And we’re not going to go back to the way it was in its previous form. And nor should we, I think we’re getting the question that you’re asking are so good of what was working well, back then, what is working well today and what can we do to kind of take us into a post COVID world? I love that those questions are being asked not everyone is doing that. 

And and I wonder if you know, the time that we’re in right now, it reminds me and those that are listening probably have heard me say this before, but I remember when I was going through premarital counseling with my wife and my pastor, and he said, here, what we’re going to do in these sessions is we’re going to we’re going to explain your life like it’s a snow globe. And you know, your life is, you know, you’re at a certain point right now, and you may think that everything’s okay. But what we’re going to do is we’re going to shake that snowglobe up. And we’re going to we’re going to resurface the things that you have allowed to settle that you’ve just allowed to just ignore. And we’re going to address those because we want you to go into this next stage of your life together, you know, being real about these things. And I feel like that’s what COVID is offering us is that opportunity to unsettle things. And I wonder if what you experienced in your culture transformation, years ago, offered you some lessons for how to approach this time? What are some things that you’ve may be brought over from that time period? Some lessons learned?

Tina Jones 

I’m gonna have to borrow that snow globe metaphor? I’m letting you know right now!

Steve Chaparro 

Tell my pastor, tell my former pastor that it’s still working an analogy and metaphor.

Tina Jones 

Right. I’m gonna need to put note credit to your pastor. Let me know That that’s an interesting way to think about what we’re in right now as a as a, you know, human race. I think that’s very interesting. And I You have made me think I do need to kind of go back on lesson learned and what do we want to apply here? Certainly, like you said, and a lot of companies are doing this pretty well serving employees and hearing their voice. A lot of people are struggling. working from home from a mental health standpoint, it can be very isolating. It can be very hard to not be isolated and be with responsible for young children are responsible for kids learning in school and not having peace and quiet and a lot of people don’t have their own workspace and so it is so varied. Some people love the flexibility.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah.

Tina Jones 

And also some people are struggling with that blurred line of working all the time and not having any balance. So, it’s, yeah, we do need to hear from employees so that we can optimize the next phase. You know, what, what, what works well, but we, for a high tech company, we’re fairly old school with really wanting people to be face to face as much as possible in any office. Of course, we allowed for certain flex, you know, some amount of flexibility. But we really put a lot of emphasis on in person discussions, and we believed it helped the innovative process. And we have been amazed by the productivity of our employees. We’ve been, you know, able to work well with customers on on huge projects that we were concerned about doing and just this dispersed way. And how well employees have worked. Virtually has just been phenomenal. So we’ve been really lucky on that.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, that’s a common response that I’m hearing is a This actually can work not that we’re going to do this 100%, necessarily, but it actually surprises us about how well people are being connected being or communicating. I’ve seen a lot of stats about how there’s been an increase in communication, an increase in productivity in some cases. So I think that speaks a lot to how well employees are doing in this timeframe. What were some of the initial whether it’s at cadence, or things that you’ve heard with some of your peers, or some initial challenges that leaders were facing in that now they have to lead either lean in into some ways that they had not necessarily leaned in before or try had to adopt new skills or mindsets. What were some of the things that you’ve heard?

Tina Jones 

That’s a good point. And I think there’s a huge role for HR to play on this. And I think leaders learned quickly that they had to over communicate you know, and and beyond. video and share more about their personal lives and have people feel connected to them, you know, show a little bit about the space in which they’re working in, talk a little bit about the challenges, talk about maybe some of the hobbies that they’re getting to work on, like, reveal more about themselves, show a little more of their own vulnerability of this isn’t easy. And I’ve, I’m worried about certain things and I’m not sure how this is all going to work show some vulnerability, but also confidence. So So this was a huge opportunity to reveal more connect more emotionally. So I’ve been really surprised some leaders we’ve had some leaders where I think employees didn’t feel particularly emotionally connected to these leaders and I think it was something that was kind of held the leader back of being a you know, phenomenal leader, and then they use this time to really open up and be more connected. to their teams. So that has been really fun to see. 

I think though leaders get very busy, we have lots of problems come across our desk every day. And so it is very easy to get bogged down in the day to day reactive work that that, you know, is constantly coming at you. So I think this phase one where we all knew we had to be on our game and we had to stretch ourselves and we had to prioritize our teams and communicating. I think the challenge will be the next phase when this becomes kind of boring, right? And we all slump into our old habits, and remembering how critical great leadership is particularly now. And maybe having some goals for ourselves of how we’re going to stretch and try different avenues and different ways of communicating and listening And, you know, exploring different things and trying different things with our teams. So I think HR can be hugely impactful and coaching leaders do not lose sight of that. Yeah, especially as this becomes more old hat.

Steve Chaparro 

Yeah, so, so good. I think, you know, just as we may have taken for granted and allow those snowflakes to settle to our snow globe, you know, we could do the same during COVID, as we enter into, you know, whatever re entry post COVID looks like. And that’s, and I think that’s one of the things that I see as the greatest opportunity as we can. We have changed leadership has changed in very good ways. And I think if we don’t take those new learnings into the new normal, whatever that will be, that will be possibly the greatest travesty of COVID. I mean, that’s way over simplified, yet, but from a leadership perspective, that will be the You know, the greatest travesty that we could ever experiences, not learning from these wonderful lessons. So true. Well, thank you so much, Tina. This has been a wonderful pleasure. This is we’ve been talking with Tina, she’s a senior vice president for global human resources at cadence design systems. Tina, if people want to learn more about you, and your work and cadence, where can they find you?

Tina Jones 

Yeah, definitely. Send me a LinkedIn message. Tina Jones. And, you know, if you go to cadence comm, there’s a lot of great material on there about our culture, about the company. Our strategy, our brand new brand is, is on the website and the employer brand, which really has played a critical role and how we thought of ourselves as a brand and the market is there as well. So there’s some great information on Cadence.com.

Steve Chaparro 

Wonderful. Well, we will research some of those links and we will provide them on the shownotes, but thank you so much, Tina for being on the show.

Announcer 

Thank you for listening to the Culture Design Show. We’ll see you again next time. Be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re at it, feel free to leave a review of the podcast.